I finally reconnected with Telford this weekend -- he's sold his house and has a little more time on his hands. We talked about the historical-Jesus blogging and he persuaded me to keep at the Borg/Wright book at least through chapter 8, which covers the resurrection. He's posted on chapters 5 and 6 here; I will get to them tomorrow.
I asked him to go back and read my posts on the book that he hasn't seen, because I thought he should know what issues I've been having so far. He did, with a vengeance -- in fact he read everything on my blog from the past month or so, leaving a string of comments in his wake. They were, as usual, thoughtful and interesting, so if you want to see them (or catch up on the debate yourself) go here, here, here, here, here and here. He also posted a response to this post on his own blog.
One comment he left was not about the historical Jesus but about my post on witnessing. He wrote:
If my family is out at an L.A. restaurant in May and someone with a radio suddenly shouts out, "Hey, Lakers won in overtime!", the room doesn't glare back and say, "Mind your own business." We all take it as a message intended to cheer, not as something that awards "points" to the announcer. Likewise, in the context of Jesus' world, the good news is of a hometown victory over not another town's home team, but the enemies of all people. "Hey! Jesus of Nazareth defeated sin and death in overtime! Woo-hoo!"Of course, people disagree over whether the news of Jesus Christ is good. Nets fans aren't excited by news of a Lakers victory, and people in cahoots with oppressive powers and principalities aren't excited that they have turned out to be on the losing side. (However, part of this good news is that they can still shift their loyalties and end their sinful ways, and all will be forgiven.) Christians should expect this kind of resistance, and treat it as charitably as the situation warrants (there are biblical examples of reactions to persecution that cross the spectrum from blanket forgiveness to blanket condemnation).
The analogy works for witnessing too. I don't think people necessarily have to be in league with Satan to get annoyed by it; they may not think they need to be saved, or understand what it means. Or to extend the metaphor, they might not know there's a basketball game or how basketball works, and so have no reason to get excited about it. As I showed in my crucifixion discussion in January, even a basic Christian statement like "Jesus died for your sins" doesn't make a darn bit of sense if you don't have the rest of the Christian cosmos in your head. And once you start picking at it, the meaning gets more complex and mysterious than it sounds at first.
That's one reason I think proper witnessing takes a long time -- you not only have to say who won, you need to explain the game. That's not something you can do from a street corner.
Posted by Camassia at July 07, 2003 06:14 PM | TrackBackCam.. I have to agree. ".. even a basic Christian statement like "Jesus died for your sins" doesn't make a darn bit of sense if you don't have the rest of the Christian cosmos in your head."
As a pastor, I sturggle to convince people of who Jesus is and why he is relevant for their lives. The old cliche --- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" is true in Evangelism.
It is hard to say to someone, "You know the nagging in the back of your head - when the TV is on mute, the radio off -- and you aren't surfing the internet? That little voice that asks, 'What is it all about?' The one that questions your short comings, and talks about who you could become if you really knew who you are? I have an idea of what that voice is like -- and here let me tell you how I found meaning, purpose and fulfillment. Better yet - lets walk together and find purpose together.
Not as neat and tidy as the four spiritual laws. But how do you go about talking about church, faith, and Jesus without using cliche church words.
And to make it harder -- what if they don't have the same nagging voice that you do/did... ?
Posted by: Pen on July 8, 2003 06:35 AMYou're right. That is another case I should have included: evangelism that fails to translate the message properly so that it can be understood. People do this all the time when they take over the judgment-language of the prophets of Israel, and shout it at those who aren't among the covenant people, who either don't know what these 'prophets' are talking about or misinterpret them. The prophets are talking to insiders, not outsiders. It would be like me chewing out someone else's kids when there is no relationship to provide the proper context of love.
Likewise, "Lakers won" is a message for insiders. A newspaper-lede-style cry would certainly be more helpful for outsiders: "The Lakers, one of Los Angeles' two professional basketball teams, won the National Basketball Association championship by prevailing over the New Jersey Nets in a game that was decided only in the 'overtime' period that can follow normal play in order to break ties. I think that is a good thing!" But besides being even more intrusive, this is just as distortive. Like explaining a joke, it alienates the discourse from its proper context.
Better, I think, to say in public, "Hey! Lakers won in overtime!" and when outsiders say, "Huh?" explain what it means. Next year maybe the outsiders will have become insiders, and they can cheer along. (Then again, since this is the Lakers we're talking about, maybe not.)
Now my analogy breaks down in at least one other place. It is culturally OK to root in public for a sports team, but religious and political differences are taken less good-naturedly (and with good reason: religion and politics are less pluralistic than athletics).
The good news was supposed to be this way too – a cause for general celebration, not widespread irritation. After all, all may benefit.
As for shouting "Lakers won in overtime!" in a restaurant being rude, well, how do you feel about a whole roomful of conversations being interrupted for a "Happy Birthday"? I like it. Share the love.
Posted by: Telford Work on July 9, 2003 12:11 PMNow my analogy breaks down in at least one other place. It is culturally OK to root in public for a sports team, but religious and political differences are taken less good-naturedly (and with good reason: religion and politics are less pluralistic than athletics).
Oh, I don't know, it depends on the context. If you root for the other team at a Lakers game, you may come out to find no air in your tires.:-)
As for shouting "Lakers won in overtime!" in a restaurant being rude, well, how do you feel about a whole roomful of conversations being interrupted for a "Happy Birthday"? I like it. Share the love.
I see what you mean, I probably wouldn't get annoyed about that. As a general rule, it's probably not a good idea to use sports metaphors with women...
Posted by: Camassia on July 9, 2003 12:48 PMI think the most popular method of evangelization is the least effective--displaying mass marketed cheap symbols. WWJD bracelets (to which I want to answer, Jesus is God and I'm not--so I can't come up with new parables, perform healing miracles, raise people from the dead least of all myself), really cool hippie macrame chokers with big crosses hanging off them, and worst of all, carfish. It just irks me to see a mean aggressive driver with a carfish. Please remove that symbol and then drive however the hell you want. A really expensive high status imported car with a carfish irks me too.
The cheap smiley face version of faith just rubs me the wrong way.
Posted by: Elizabeth on July 10, 2003 09:44 AM